Keith Ayoob, EdN, RDN, FAND and Amy Gorin, MS, RDN
The career opportunities in dietetics has expanded exponentially. My dietetic interns share what their interests are when they start my Business/Entrepreneur rotation and then I introduce them to experts in these fields. Gabby Zeagler was interested in clinical pediatric nutrition so who better to interview than Keith Ayoob, EdN, RDN, FAND! Keith did not disappoint with his candid, thorough and thoughtful answers. Any intern who wants to learn more about being a successful media dietitian needs to talk with Amy Gorin, MS, RDN. Gabby was lucky enough to catch Amy when she had extra time and learn a bit more about this area of dietetics. I must say that every student I have supervised wants to learn more about acting as a media nutrition consultant, recipe developer and author!
Keith Ayoob, EdN, RDN, FAND
Gabriela Zeagler: Why did you enter this area of dietetics and what has been your most memorable experience when working with children?
Keith Ayoob: I never intended to work with kids and certainly not kids with special needs. I'd completed my doctorate and was continuing my job as a part-time relief dietitian, also working part time in a pediatric primary residency program when the opportunity came up to consult at a center serving this population. I was looking for "the next step" in my career and I inquired about the position. Not really wanting to work with kids with special needs -- and not feeling I knew enough to do so, I asked for more money than I knew they'd ever give me. The bargaining started and we settled on less than I'd asked for but much more than I'd been receiving as a relief dietitian, so I was off and running. And clueless. I rationalized I'd be there for 6-12 months, until I could find something else and that would be it. I stayed 33 years.
My most memorable experience? Oy, you get a lot of them in that length of time. One of my more recent ones: An autistic girl, about 7 years old. Very scared and wouldn't separate from her mother, just stuck to her like glue and barely looked at me at all. She could drink from a cup "sort of" but refused it, preferring a bottle. Getting her off the bottle was priority #1 if we were going to get her eating more solids and a greater variety. The bottle had become the catch-all for her calories and nutrition and totally inappropriate for her skills. I used baby steps and made it a game for her to try the cup. Telling her or asking her to drink I knew wouldn't work. I told her to "give the cup a kiss" and not to drink anything. She did. Then she did it repeatedly until she was getting the rim of the cup closer to her mouth. Eventually I tipped the cup just enough to give her a sip and pulled it back. Lots of praise and applause and big cheers, so she liked the positive reinforcement. After as little as 10-15 minutes, she was holding the cup and drinking from it (and water, no less!) independently, even starting to laugh and exhibit some happy emotions. This is not typical of a first visit with a child with autism. It got better. She saw me so excited about how well she'd done she just walked over to me and stood right by me, separating from her mother. That was huge, but it got better. She climbed up on my lap and gave me a hug, right in front of her mom. Mom started crying and she said, "she doesn't even do that with her uncle!" My day doesn't get better than that, and it's why I get up in the morning.
I've also seen terrific experiences with other clinicians, like the one who got a cochlear implant and we saw him hear his first sounds -- his adoptive mother speaking to him. No dry eyes anywhere that day.
Sadder experience: the Bronx was the epicenter of pediatric AIDS in the 80's and 90's. Our center saw more than nearly every clinic in the US, as most kids with HIV had developmental issues back then. "60 minutes" taped there one day. Keep in mind, many of those kids were abandoned, parents had died from overdoses or AIDS-related issues, there was no treatment for many years, it was awful. Then came the drugs and kids lasted longer. Well, little Erica was 12 (one of our oldest at the time) and Ed Bradley, the long-time correspondent, interviewed her. She'd been abandoned by her mother right from birth and was adopted by a family that didn't know she was infected until they had her for a couple of years. They were fantastic parents. Bradley started asking sensitive questions, like, "what do you think of your birth mother who gave you this disease?" (I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea. It was horrible but TV goes for sensation) Little Erica (she was about 4'6" because their growth was often stunted and very thin, so she looked very waif-like) wasn't having any of it. She looked him straight in the eye and said, "I've cried enough. If you ask questions that make me cry, I'm stopping this interview and walking out." That's guts. She was a 12-year-old badass and I absolutely loved that about her.
GZ: What is one thing you wish you would have known at the beginning of your dietetic internship that you learned by the end?
KA: I never did an internship. Back then -- I got my RD in 1980 -- you could sit for the exam after your internship or get a master's first, then do 6 months of RD supervised experience and then sit for it. That's what I did. If I'd had an internship under my belt, my first clinical experience as a part-time relief dietitian would have been much easier. My first day on the floors was the ICU. Ow. What I soon learned was that patients in a hospital bed value their meals. If you can do something extra -- in my case that often meant going to the hospital kitchen and getting them something extra -- it makes so much difference. Maybe it's "not your job" officially, but I learned it's less about that than about what works and what doesn't, in terms of making their experience in the hospital better. If they hated the meal options, I'd tell them to write in "roast chicken". It's boring but it was always available, if not always listed, so it was an easy default for them when the only options were broiled fish or beef liver (don't laugh -- that was on a Thursday of week 3, if I remember). Someone going through chemo with dysgeusia doesn't want either of those things and I wasn't going to tell them it's tough luck. On my watch, they got the chicken if they wanted it. Period.
GZ: If you could have one super-power what would it be and why?
KA: Toughest question, as there are many I'd like to have. This won't be popular, but I'd probably slow the population growth and expand the rainforests so the planet could last a little longer.
GZ: What is a rare talent no one would actually pay you for?
KA: I have been designing rather intricate needlepoint canvasses for many years. I'm actually a Master craftsman needle pointer, and someone did pay me for it for a while. I worked for a shop here in NYC and the owner had uber-rich clients who would buy these pricey but awful designs and pay me to stitch them. Given that it was work I did while watching TV or during otherwise "down time" it was a nice gig! It paid for 3 trips to Europe for me. When it's my own work, it's so meditative. The more complex the better. My favorite ones to design and stitch are Persian rug-style patterns. Right now, I'm doing the seat cushions and backs for two companion antique chairs. Not Persian rug-style, these are very contemporary and have lots of different sections. There's a backstory to each section that I may write down at some point. The first seat cushion alone has about 175,000 stitches. Finishing both chairs will get close to totaling about 700,000. It doesn't take patience, it TEACHES patience, and that's one of the reasons I continue.
GZ: What are 3 staples in your kitchen pantry?
KA: Canned beans, dark chocolate, and sardines packed in water with no salt. Sorry, but you asked. I eat sardines for breakfast in the morning, with lots of spices and flavors added. I wanted to get more fish into my diet but my partner doesn't like it more than once a week or so. Since breakfast is often a meal of "habit" it seemed ideal for incorporating it into my routine. (I have a Mediterranean background and sardines were no big deal, just part of what we ate sometimes, and breakfasts of savory food were common for us.) Beyond those 3, there are also different flours -- yes, I'm one of those who has really stepped up my yeast-bread baking. The real action is in the fridge: A ton of Greek yogurt, lots of fresh fruit (those are my go-to snacks), mostly melon and berries of all types, and artisan dark chocolate bars (notice a cocoa theme here?!), as the expensive stuff needs refrigeration to keep fresh
GZ: If you were on a deserted island, what is the one food item you couldn’t live without?
KA: Very dark, very high-quality chocolate bars. I can get through anything if there's an ounce or two of this stuff at the end of my day. Best trip ever? A walking tour of artisan chocolatiers in Paris. Covered about 20 miles all around the city over three days (continuing the cocoa theme). All self-guided (I did my homework!). On an island though, it's probably more likely there would be fruit around. Any kind of melon would keep me happy. Even as a kid it was one of my favorite foods and I can eat it daily and never tire of it.
Find out more about Keith by visiting his website: https://cuttothechasenutrition.com/
Amy Gorin, MS, RDN
Gabriela Zeagler: Did you start out in clinical when you first started in dietetics? If not, what was your first RD job and then how did you transition into consulting/running your own business?
Amy Gorin: Sort of. Once I became a dietitian, I immediately started my own nutrition communications business and private practice. At the same time, the rehab center that I’d done one of my dietetic internship rotations at offered me a PRN position. So I did that for a few months, but I quickly realized that clinical is not for me! I’m much more of an entrepreneur, and I love the communications side of things and being a media RD. You can see more information here:
https://www.amydgorin.com/becoming-a-registered-dietitian-media-rd/
https://www.amydgorin.com/how-to-make-a-career-change-become-a-dietitian/
GZ: What is one thing you wish you would have known at the beginning of your dietetic internship that you learned by the end?
AG: I did a distance internship, and I was so set on having all my ducks in a row before it started that I wasn’t necessarily thinking about what I was most interested in learning about. Luckily, things worked out for the best. My internship had a two-week elective rotation, and I’d originally set this up to work at a dialysis center. This would have been interesting, but my preceptor ended up backing out and I used my contact network to get placed at what was really of most interest to me, private practice. I learned so many useful skills in the two weeks I spent in this rotation that I still use today. So my advice is to choose the rotations that best reflect your career goals and interests, not the ones that are simply the easiest to secure.
GZ: If you could have one super-power what would it be and why?
AG: To teleport myself! I love traveling, but the time sitting on an airplane isn’t so fun.
GZ: What is a rare talent no one would actually pay you for?
AG: Oh gosh, this is a hard question! Well, I paint. I’ve been oil painting since I was in the third grade. My initial career choice was to be an artist, and I actually have a bachelor’s degree in art. But I had one major problem: I never wanted to sell my artwork. When people would offer to buy my paintings, I said “no thanks” and kept them or gave them to family members! Now, my art is a hobby and I also use it in the food photography I do for my blog.
GZ: What are 3 staples in your kitchen pantry?
AG: I’d say organic coffee beans, unsweetened cocoa powder, and truffle salt. I’m extremely particular about my coffee, I love using cocoa powder to sweeten desserts without any added sugar, and I add truffle salt to so many dishes, from veggies to pasta.
GZ: If you were on a deserted island, what is the one food item you couldn’t live without?
AG: Greek yogurt! I eat this on the daily. It’s so creamy and just so delicious. Plus, it’s full of fueling protein.
Find out more about Amy by visiting her website: https://www.amydgorin.com/ Amy also graciously shares a link to free media tips she has prepared at masterthemedia.co/free-tips/
Interviews by Gabby Zeagler, who recently earned her Master’s in nutrition in May 2020 through California State University, Long Beach where she is also finishing her dietetic internship. She is very interested in sports nutrition, pediatrics and is looking forward to running a private practice in the future.